tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26434163.post5471150379509958551..comments2023-10-24T07:27:42.118-07:00Comments on Free Racine: News Story Feels UnfairDenis Navratilhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05973310336665077770noreply@blogger.comBlogger43125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26434163.post-51084341129524782892011-06-16T11:41:01.796-07:002011-06-16T11:41:01.796-07:00Nemo said: Gobbilty-yadda yadda, insult, blah blah...Nemo said: Gobbilty-yadda yadda, insult, blah blah, insult-gook.Sean Cranleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09170723474238012805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26434163.post-52277113729597264182011-06-16T10:14:41.804-07:002011-06-16T10:14:41.804-07:00sean, I had hoped that your knowledge of Mann-Made...sean, I had hoped that your knowledge of Mann-Made global warming scripture was better than it seems to be. What you have missed is that Warmist priests and bishops realized early on that any energy trapping by co2 at these trace amounts would be so small that they would be indistinguishable from measurement error. That's why they came up with the faith based "Forcing" (pronounced "magic"). <br /><br />You see sean, normally engineers and scientists first gain an understanding of a system before modeling it with an algorithm. The Jedi warmists wisely saw this as a impediment to their funding stream so they used the "Force" to create a lite algorithm that can be adjusted at whim to computationally slice through the most scientifically dense heresy. Can't get enough funding for that new plane? Turn up the Forcing to multiply the trapped energy by 4. That'll fill the old collection plate!<br /><br />The biggest irony here seems to be the the sun could be currently going out. OK, technically a <a href="http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/06/14/ice_age/" rel="nofollow">second Maunder Minimum</a> is not "going out", but we will need all the insignificant warming we can get for the next 100 years or so. <br /><br />The lesson of this comment thread? Don't send a warmist ewok to do the job of a Jedi. Heh.Nemohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16346293243323538331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26434163.post-16800903008486656222011-06-16T07:45:42.909-07:002011-06-16T07:45:42.909-07:00Oh yeah, almost forgot. You still have not explain...Oh yeah, almost forgot. You still have not explained how the increased atmosperic CO2 concentration does NOT (in your mind) result in the increased absorption of solar energy. you can't get around that one.Sean Cranleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09170723474238012805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26434163.post-34139684285492396852011-06-16T07:43:20.478-07:002011-06-16T07:43:20.478-07:00No Nemo, it is you who are not listening. As I sai...No Nemo, it is you who are not listening. As I said before, the denser forests (assuming that is even true) are not enought to compensate for the CO2 emitted, because the CO2 concentrations in the atmospere are still rising. If the forests were absorbing enough of the excess CO2, the concentration trend would flatten out. But they are not and it is not. It's just that simple.<br /><br />I look forward to debunking your trace gas argument (again). Bring it on!Sean Cranleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09170723474238012805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26434163.post-86254262158382110772011-06-15T07:23:11.159-07:002011-06-15T07:23:11.159-07:00You're not listening sean. Remember a few com...You're not listening sean. Remember a few comments back about the denser forests? Remember how conversion of kinetic energy to potential energy lowers the kinetic energy of a closed system?<br /><br />I still have not gone into how co2 is a trace gas and any warming due to a trace increase in a trace gas would be impossible to discern from measurement errors.<br /><br />Sorry to post such blasphemy. I try to never discredit another religion mostly because the faith based nature of religions are impossible to refute using the limited tools of logic. But when a cult springs up and claims to be backed by science, all I see is a target.Nemohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16346293243323538331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26434163.post-35146354924212448122011-06-14T14:10:59.621-07:002011-06-14T14:10:59.621-07:00Nemo baby dancin right on by the part about - But ...Nemo baby dancin right on by the part about - But what's most striking about this past year's data is how it fits into the larger trend. The list of the 10 warmest years since NOAA's records started now features nine years from the last decade, and we haven't seen a year with temperatures below the 20th century average since 1976. NOAA has a temperature record that goes back to 1880.<br /><br />Meanwhile CO2 levels continue to rise in that atmosphere and you still have not explained how that does NOT (in your mind) result in the increased absorption of solar energy.<br /><br />Nemo tippy tippy toe gonna shuffle off to buffaloSean Cranleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09170723474238012805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26434163.post-7445969827552450102011-06-14T09:01:35.855-07:002011-06-14T09:01:35.855-07:00sean, seeing now that your faith in Mann-made glob...sean, seeing now that your faith in Mann-made global warming is "Outlier and Pejorative" based, I'm not sure that any rational line of reasoning will detach you from the cult. <br /><br />Perhaps you should consider the approach of UN IPCC Author, Warmist climate modeller,and co-pope of Mann-made global warming <a href="http://www.vancouversun.com/mobile/iphone/story.html?id=4934816" rel="nofollow">Andrew Weaver on spreading the good news of Mann-made warming</a>. Andrew Weaver: 'I'm fed up speaking with the stereotypical angry, retired, grey-haired engineer' -- Enjoys giving giving 'lecture to his daughter's class at secondary school'. I think you'll find that an audence with little understanding of science and mathimatics to be much more agreeable with your position. Heh.Nemohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16346293243323538331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26434163.post-34640202071497837312011-06-14T07:04:46.573-07:002011-06-14T07:04:46.573-07:00Nemo you moron, when you have 2005 and 2010 as tie...Nemo you moron, when you have 2005 and 2010 as tied for the two hottest years on record that draws a horizonal line. DOPE!Sean Cranleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09170723474238012805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26434163.post-88407092677809683722011-06-10T06:45:45.377-07:002011-06-10T06:45:45.377-07:00sean, I looked at your link. Check out the slope ...sean, I looked at your link. Check out the slope of the line since 2000. It looks to be zero or even negative (confirming absolutely no warming during the past the past 10 years.) Thanks for adding another piece of evidence disproving your position.<br /><br />And while we're at it, <a href="http://www.abc.net.au/local/audio/2011/06/09/3240161.htm" rel="nofollow">let's add another</a>. Heh.<br /><br />I am reminded of Calvin Coolidge, a president of few words. Once a White House dinner guest made a bet that she could get the president to say more than two words. She told the president of her wager. His reply: "You lose."Nemohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16346293243323538331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26434163.post-19214427629488490002011-06-10T06:19:24.345-07:002011-06-10T06:19:24.345-07:00Sorry Dude you continue to be in error.
http://ar...Sorry Dude you continue to be in error.<br /><br />http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2011/01/noaa-2010-goes-down-as-a-tie-for-warmest-year-on-record.ars <br /><br />EXCERPT: NOAA has released its annual State of the Climate report for the year 2010, and it goes down in the record books as another hot one, in a statistical tie with 2005 as the warmest year on record. But what's most striking about this past year's data is how it fits into the larger trend. The list of the 10 warmest years since NOAA's records started now features nine years from the last decade, and we haven't seen a year with temperatures below the 20th century average since 1976. NOAA has a temperature record that goes back to 1880.<br /><br />Skepticism in science is a good thing, denial is not. You Nemo, are in denial.Sean Cranleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09170723474238012805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26434163.post-10902912618152680572011-06-09T08:42:05.356-07:002011-06-09T08:42:05.356-07:00Asked and answered, sean. I made the claim, backu...Asked and answered, sean. I made the claim, backup up by science, that some kinetic energy is being transformed into potential energy through biomass production. You disputed my claim by saying "it is not". And you used the word "obvious". You might have made a face at me too. I'm sure such fine forensic skills hold much power among progressives or anyone else in the unthinking class.<br /><br />There is more evidence undercutting your cult. The most damming of which is that <a href="" rel="nofollow">NASA satellite instruments precisely measuring global temperatures show absolutely no warming during the past the past 10 years.</a> Ouch!<br /><br />Sorry to shake your faith, sean. You can take solace in the thought that religions such as Mann-made Global Warming are mostly elements of faith and largely impervious to facts or reason. I'm sure it will go on as long as there are pockets to pick and rubes to be rolled (hi kay!).Nemohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16346293243323538331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26434163.post-80567383656691696222011-06-09T05:46:02.787-07:002011-06-09T05:46:02.787-07:00Well look, more meanderous yammerings from Nemo to...Well look, more meanderous yammerings from Nemo to continue to avoid addressing the point.<br /><br />Atmospheric CO2 is increasing due to human contibutions. An atmosphere with more CO2 absorbs more solar energy. Please explain how this increasing CO2 is NOT going to result in more energy in the atmosphere.Sean Cranleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09170723474238012805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26434163.post-83213153422316514512011-06-08T13:30:19.283-07:002011-06-08T13:30:19.283-07:00sean, "Consequently, it is obvious...".
...sean, "Consequently, it is obvious...".<br /><br />sean, before I try to teach you the difference between the thermodynamic effects of kinetic and potential energy (again) and to understand your position that a ton of saplings contains less mass than a ton of old growth wood, let us look at the core of your latest argument: "it is obvious..."<br /><br />"It is obvious" implies that what follows is an axiom, a proposition that is assumed without proof. I fine this a delightful summation of your thoughts and ideas on Mann-made global warming. <br /><br />As for your cries of "dubious sources" do you have any actual facts to undermine the studies or are you confusing "dubious" with "heretic" again? I've often found that it's helpful to see an example of a word or concept being used properly to improve my understanding so lets see if that works for you: I'm sorry if I've shaken your faith in this dubious cult with my heretic sources.<br /><br />So are you going to wear that bronze metal or hang it over the mantel?Nemohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16346293243323538331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26434163.post-68497180785935435842011-06-08T12:39:32.238-07:002011-06-08T12:39:32.238-07:00uniformitarianism (which you agree with) means tha...uniformitarianism (which you agree with) means that CO2 absorbs the same amount of solar energy in the lab as in the atmosphere. Consequently, increased CO2 in the atmosphere (indisputable) means increased energy absorption (also indisputable). Your continued dancing will not get you out of this one.<br /><br />I'm sorry but despite the ambiguous claims of one of your dubious sources about increased forest "density" (which they did not define), the FACT of the matter is that atmospheric CO2 is still increasing rapidly. Consequently, it is obvious that the carbon sinks including increased forest "density" (assuming it's real and not simply billions of tiny, closely spaced saplings) is insufficient to absorb the excess anthropogenic carbon input.Sean Cranleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09170723474238012805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26434163.post-78596982968805429472011-06-08T07:49:32.431-07:002011-06-08T07:49:32.431-07:00So close. I agree with you on the scientific law ...So close. I agree with you on the scientific law of uniformitarianism. A bench, operating under the same conditions here should produce the same results as a second bench operating under the same conditions there. The error you make is religiously applying simple models to complex systems. You discount as high heresy "increased CO2 has secondary and tertiary effects that can be anathema to your fundamentally religious position."<br /><br /><a href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1394692/Forget-deforestation-The-worlds-woodland-getting-denser-change-help-combat-climate-change.html" rel="nofollow">And then I saw this.</a> Heh. <br /><br />Call me when your bench produces denser woodland. Until then, thanks for playing. Don't forget your bronze metal on the way out.Nemohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16346293243323538331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26434163.post-80633319093635470392011-06-06T19:40:48.413-07:002011-06-06T19:40:48.413-07:00And I'm back too, although I had the good sens...And I'm back too, although I had the good sense and values to stay far far away from Las Vegas and althought there was a casino boat nearby, I never considered wasting my time and money there.<br /><br />My "sophmoric understanding of science includes the scientific law of uniformitarianism which holds that the same natural laws and processes that operate in the universe now, have always operated in the universe in the past and apply EVERYWHERE in the universe.<br /><br />Therefore, the physics of energy absorption of CO2 apply equally in the lab as in the atmosphere. <br /><br />Since you can't knock that fact down, you accuse me of failure to engage in thoughtful debate in the same sentence you accuse me of using perjoratives. Hypocrite.Sean Cranleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09170723474238012805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26434163.post-87032023883122978702011-06-01T12:57:21.590-07:002011-06-01T12:57:21.590-07:00And we're back! I saw this today and could no...And we're back! I <a href="http://australianconservative.com/2011/05/the-central-hypothesis-of-global-warming-fails-the-test-professor-bob-carter-says/" rel="nofollow">saw this today</a> and could not help but wonder if sean had tried to work some faith based alchemy to convince the uninformed and himself (but I repeat myself!) that bronze is the new gold. It did not come as a surprise to find that my very small buddy had wandered down his well trod path of pejorative rather that his less (rarely. (very rarely! (Never?))) traveled road of thoughtful debate.<br /><br />A man once made the observation that you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. sean, I had hoped you would see the error of your argument. You didn't. I blame myself for underestimating your sophomoric understanding of science. Here, let me ever so gently shove your muzzle into the wet stream of truth. If the earth's atmosphere were the same as your lab bench example, you would be correct. It isn't. Increased CO2 has secondary and tertiary effects that can be anathema to your fundamentally religious position. Now quit predicting that the world will end on May 21st, open a <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1592577962/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_2?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=0070044198&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0N2AAP7RWPQMJ1MFMKQZ" rel="nofollow">book</a> and try to learn something. Heh.Nemohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16346293243323538331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26434163.post-46089569228282217032011-05-25T11:16:46.055-07:002011-05-25T11:16:46.055-07:00Dear non-engineer Nemo, your poor excuse for logic...Dear non-engineer Nemo, your poor excuse for logical arguments are a pathetic joke, utterly worthless.<br /><br />PHYSICS DOES NOT CHANGE with location, duh!<br /><br />CO2 absorbs more heat than other atmospheric gases, INDISPUTIBLY.<br /><br />CO2 levels are MEASUREABLY increasing at a rapid rate and are WAY above historical levels, DEMONSTRATING EMPIRICALLY that your "trees" are not absorbing CO2 at anywhere near a rate sufficient to keep pace with the input. Thus there WILL be addition heat/energy added to the atmosphere.<br /><br />In addition, we humans are causing massive deforestation subtracting even more from the potential carbon absorbing biomass.<br /><br />The ice caps are melting. Once they're gone their mitigating effect on temperatures will be gone as well, just like once all the ice melts in your freezer during a power outage.<br /><br />I'll take the gold, the silver and the bronze and give you the dunce cap you've so doggedly earned.<br /><br />Las Vegas and the base values it represents is just the place for a Money God worshipping Cult of Con moronization "engineer" such as yourself. Enjoy your natural habitat!Sean Cranleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09170723474238012805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26434163.post-58517826273876124572011-05-25T10:05:15.145-07:002011-05-25T10:05:15.145-07:00But sean, you said, and I quote, "The physics...But sean, you said, and I quote, "The physics is the same in both the lab AND in the atmosphere." Now you are saying not exactly. Or not at all. Your difficultly seems to be not understanding what "the same" means. Let me try to help. 1 is the same as 1. 2 is not the same as 1. I could go on and on, but I don't want to tax your skills. The conclusion is that the experiments in the lab that you lied about do not take into account all the complexity in real world systems. Which leads to stuff like <a href="http://www.worldclimatereport.com/index.php/2011/05/23/less-cooling-means-less-warming/" rel="nofollow">this,</a>.<br /><br />I asked you to take the silver metal and be satisfied but you didn't listen. Congratulations on being the first person I know of to take the bronze in a 2 man race. Heh.<br /><br />There will be a short pause in this current beating of sean by me. Mrs Nemo and I are escaping the -10 F below normal "warming" that we seem to be having for the last few months here in Wisconsin. Leaving for Las Vegas in 2.5 hours. If anyone else wants to poke a Mann-made global acolyte feel free. It's easy and funny!Nemohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16346293243323538331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26434163.post-30210414022024031942011-05-24T19:47:56.381-07:002011-05-24T19:47:56.381-07:00WOW! Nemo, your degree in idiocity is indeed compl...WOW! Nemo, your degree in idiocity is indeed complete.<br /><br />No biomass produced in the experiment. That is without a doubt THE dumbest, most dense comment you've ever made, which is quite the feat. I am totally astonished at how utterly stupid that one was. You've out done yourself!<br /><br />There is NO POSSIBLE WAY that you are an engineer as you've claimed. Unless of course your field of engineering is the design and specification of moronicisms.<br /><br />No biomass produced in the simple physics calculation of the known amount of heat CO2 absorbs versus other atmospheric gases. SHEESH!<br /><br />Thank you Denis for giving Nemo leave to pursue this avenue. THAT was priceless! And just imagine what fanciful nonsense he'll follow up with to preserve his reality block and save face now!Sean Cranleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09170723474238012805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26434163.post-80646977023865095572011-05-24T11:26:39.344-07:002011-05-24T11:26:39.344-07:00sean, you said, "The physics is the same in b...sean, you said, "The physics is the same in both the lab AND in the atmosphere." Since no biomass was produced in your simple experiment, the result would seem to be different. Understanding why the result is not the same will go along way in helping to deprogram you.<br /><br />You've clearly earned the silver here. Take it and move on. Heh.Nemohttp://www.knottlane.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26434163.post-90836175762402342862011-05-24T09:21:05.396-07:002011-05-24T09:21:05.396-07:00CO2 levels in the atmosphere are indisputably spik...CO2 levels in the atmosphere are indisputably spiking to concentrations well beyond anything seen in our current climate epoch. <br /><br />Consequently, the answer to your taunt is that not nearly enough extra wood (or other biomass) is being produced to absorb the CO2 we are emitting to keep it from being expressed as increased heat in the atmosphere.<br /><br />Lob me another one of your pitches Nemo.Sean Cranleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09170723474238012805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26434163.post-39773511804353911102011-05-24T07:55:30.427-07:002011-05-24T07:55:30.427-07:00Both, sean? On earth this is certainly true. Muc...Both, sean? On earth this is certainly true. Much of the incoming kinetic energy is used by plants and stored as potential energy. Anyone who has ever put a log into a stove to heat their cabin can attest to this. In the lab results you cite, how much wood is produced?<br /><br />Maybe it's best for you to take your silver metal and call it a day sean. Heh.Nemohttp://www.knottlane.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26434163.post-29673630396146325832011-05-24T05:51:27.755-07:002011-05-24T05:51:27.755-07:00Both.Both.Sean Cranleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09170723474238012805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26434163.post-2913901857923947532011-05-23T14:32:52.602-07:002011-05-23T14:32:52.602-07:00Thanks for the permission Denis! I promise not to ...Thanks for the permission Denis! I promise not to abuse it. I've been having a fun time putting it into terms that sean (or anyone like him that thinks a scientist is a person that primarily wears a white coat and probes the odd monkey) can understand and hate to stop. So let's continue...<br /><br />sean, I see you have added the term "energy" to your simplistic sun/CO2 equation. Interesting that. As you may or may not know there are two types of energy:<br /><br />1) Kinetic, the energy of motion.<br /><br />2) Potential, the energy of position.<br /><br />Which type of energy were you referring to? Careful, planted in this question is trap. Heh.Nemohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16346293243323538331noreply@blogger.com