tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26434163.post6394941712366944704..comments2023-10-24T07:27:42.118-07:00Comments on Free Racine: Redefining RacismDenis Navratilhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05973310336665077770noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26434163.post-74896292490873006212012-12-10T02:18:36.437-08:002012-12-10T02:18:36.437-08:00Load Factor MEMS Senior Engineer - R&D Alcon L...Load Factor MEMS Senior Engineer - R&D Alcon Lab - Irvine Irvine, CA Replace the present lift trucks with coolie lift trucks if they take a lot of time in horizontal transport. If working with reach trucks in the dock area is not comfortable experience, replace them with pallet trucks. Robur lift trucks are more economical than other lift truck types in terms of purchase price as well as maintenance cost. Using a particular lift truck for a particular material handling application will reduce a chunk of the total manufacturing costs.Rebeccahttp://web.brookcntr.k12.mn.us/groups/physicalscience/wiki/3f9e45/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26434163.post-32825307135409434332009-03-20T18:40:00.000-07:002009-03-20T18:40:00.000-07:00KL, if we are to have meaningful conversations abo...KL, if we are to have meaningful conversations about race and racism, it seems to me that a prerequisite would be agreement on the meaning of words. Why not just use the dictionary? Why tamper with the meaning of easily understood words?<BR/><BR/>I agree that historically blacks have suffered far more as a result of prejudice and racism than any other people in this country, but that is hardly a sufficient reason to change the meaning of words. <BR/><BR/>So yes, it is semantics. It is semantics brought on by people who are tampering with the definition of the word racism. Now you offer a rather benign explanation for the change in meaning. Fair enough, but I believe that a sizeable number of people use the redefinition as a sort of blunt rhetorical weapon, attempting to put white people on the defensive, to achieve political goals, to change the balance of power as they see it etc...Denis Navratilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05973310336665077770noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26434163.post-92071919036629015922009-03-20T16:10:00.000-07:002009-03-20T16:10:00.000-07:00Now your getting into semantics. Some prefer to ca...Now your getting into semantics. Some prefer to call only prejudice + privilege + power racism.<BR/><BR/>When you think about what the word "prejudice" literally means (prejudging a person because they are part of a certain group) and then look at racism in it's historical context (an excuse for the oppression, enslavement, and colonization of people of color around the world, that later morphed into a sudo-scientific justification on white supremacy), this definition makes sense.<BR/><BR/>But what's really happening here is that when you and I use words like "racism" or "prejudice," we're not using the same definitions, so it comes off as if we're disagreeing.<BR/><BR/>Also, try to understand why, again considering the historical context, it may be difficult for minority groups to use the same word to describe prejudice from within their communities as oppression from outside.Kevin Locketthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08238649458932164077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26434163.post-18745770564618008562009-03-20T13:09:00.000-07:002009-03-20T13:09:00.000-07:00So, in other words, what Martha Barry meant to say...So, in other words, what Martha Barry meant to say is that "One of the many various forms of racisim is prejudice plus privilege plus power to oppress." ??Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26434163.post-55158561813319177512009-03-20T12:02:00.000-07:002009-03-20T12:02:00.000-07:00I'm not saying "don't call them out." It's just th...I'm not saying "don't call them out." It's just that, when I think about black people that don't like white people, you're not going to change them with the same approach that you'd use for white racist. It's two different problems with two different solutions. If we lump them together as the same thing, we'll only solve one half of the problem.Kevin Locketthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08238649458932164077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26434163.post-61551152539037104782009-03-20T11:51:00.000-07:002009-03-20T11:51:00.000-07:00"I guess it just comes down to balancing the risk...."I guess it just comes down to balancing the risk."<BR/><BR/>IMHO balancing the risk seems to resemble: "I'll let you get away with it as long as I can appear as if I'm not ingnoring reverse prejudice."<BR/><BR/>IMHO that's eeerily too close to, "You get a free pass until you are a politcical liability."<BR/><BR/>Again, I hear ya. No one can afford to completely alienate their political power base. But just as the GOP gets a bad name from haters amoung us; so too can your cause.<BR/><BR/>Just sayin...maybe calling out all of the haters could do you some good.<BR/><BR/>And yes, touche, I have to do the same in my own conservative circles too. Glass houses being what they are...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26434163.post-88651089073454517552009-03-20T11:35:00.000-07:002009-03-20T11:35:00.000-07:00Rich, I guess it just comes down to balancing the ...Rich, I guess it just comes down to balancing the risk. On the one hand, you don't want to risk ignoring when minorities are prejudice against the dominant group. On the other hand, if you refer to all forms of prejudice as the same, you run the risk of ignoring the important differences and the role that power structures play.Kevin Locketthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08238649458932164077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26434163.post-49118724610151243832009-03-20T10:21:00.000-07:002009-03-20T10:21:00.000-07:00"Rich, I agree that we have to address all kinds o..."Rich, I agree that we have to address all kinds of prejudice."<BR/><BR/>@KL- I feel ya, but then why support a very narrow definition? Especially when it can make you appear to be giving some people a free pass. It seems to contribute to an Us vs Them mentality, when assimilation cultures and appreciation of diversity seems more productive (at least to me).<BR/><BR/>IMHO, the cause doesn't need the negative press. 'The message' can be improved.<BR/><BR/>Even the accidental appearance of giving a free pass should be avoided if possible.<BR/><BR/>But I could be wrong, I often am.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26434163.post-8913698297352948362009-03-20T10:06:00.000-07:002009-03-20T10:06:00.000-07:00Denis,Wow, forgot to check the "email follow-up co...Denis,<BR/>Wow, forgot to check the "email follow-up comments" box.<BR/>I'm not saying that all whites are racist. Again, you're thinking on an individual level. I'm making the argument that white America is a collective power structure. You're interpreting that as a judgment on individuals. That's the same as if I said "the average Texan owns 1.3 guns" and you accused me of calling all Texans murderers. All I'm saying is that this power structure exist, and it impacts the cause and effect of prejudice from all communities.<BR/><BR/>Rich, I agree that we have to address all kinds of prejudice. However, it seems that you are acknowledging that there are various kinds. So, if we're to address these various kinds of prejudice, it stands to reason that we need to understand what they are and what makes them different so that we can develop appropriate approaches.<BR/><BR/>If a poor urban black youth says that he hates whites because they want to screw over blacks, and a suburban white thinks he can call blacks the n-word because they're inferior, and a poor white hates Latinos because he thinks immigrants are the cause of all his problems, and we have laws that cause minorities to be OVERrepresented in prison, we can't address all those issues the same way. Part of understanding this is discussing the role power - both individual and collective - play in prejudice and racism.Kevin Locketthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08238649458932164077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26434163.post-76529741286581460002009-03-20T09:40:00.000-07:002009-03-20T09:40:00.000-07:00"Picking on the YWCA? Don't you have better things..."Picking on the YWCA? Don't you have better things to do?"<BR/><BR/>#1. Racism is real. And worthy of being addressed.<BR/><BR/>#2. Actually he's doing the YWCA a big favor, similar to telling someone that they have toilet paper stuck to their shoe. I know I'd welcome suggestions for improvement.<BR/><BR/>#3. Free, civil, respectful discussions on the topic should help.<BR/><BR/>Props to DN for raising the issue.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26434163.post-17975730634103520182009-03-20T09:25:00.000-07:002009-03-20T09:25:00.000-07:00The definition of empower is not the same as power...The definition of empower is not the same as power. The subtle difference is perhaps beyond your blunt perceptions. <BR/><BR/>Picking on the YWCA? Don't you have better things to do?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26434163.post-63317249505794274582009-03-20T05:40:00.000-07:002009-03-20T05:40:00.000-07:00Mixter, I didn't think that the point of the artic...Mixter, I didn't think that the point of the article was to redefine racism, but redefine it she did. You are right about the link problem. If you think you can guide me through the process, I am up for it. For that matter, any FR readers similarly annoyed can call me. 262-752-1451 is my number and I just might be home a good portion of today.Denis Navratilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05973310336665077770noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26434163.post-56358749677584429622009-03-20T05:20:00.000-07:002009-03-20T05:20:00.000-07:00Kevin, thanks for your comments. Since "racism doe...Kevin, thanks for your comments. Since "racism does not just exist on an individual basis" and is "very collective" and though "not all individual whites have "power" they are part of a collective power structure"...<BR/><BR/>Kevin, why stop there? It must be true that all whites are racist, being a part of the racist collective power structure, and no blacks are racist because they are on the outside looking in. Go ahead, just say it, or write it.<BR/><BR/>Is it any wonder why we are a nation of cowards? The argument is rigged. Whites have to acknowledge their racism, repent, make ammends etc... or else.Denis Navratilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05973310336665077770noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26434163.post-14439117911324763242009-03-18T10:12:00.000-07:002009-03-18T10:12:00.000-07:00After reading the entire piece, I don't take away ...After reading the <A HREF="http://www.jsonline.com/news/opinion/41235412.html" REL="nofollow">entire piece,</A> I don't take away the idea that she's redefining racism.<BR/><BR/>Seriously, Denis -- learn to link to the stuff to which you refer! :) It's simple; I'll even help you if you like!<BR/><BR/>MixterAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26434163.post-29001623203781726062009-03-18T10:09:00.000-07:002009-03-18T10:09:00.000-07:00"Both are wrong, B U T not identical." (emphasis a..."Both are wrong, B U T not identical." (emphasis added)<BR/><BR/>@KL- Qualifiers like this may appear to some to be an excuse to let racist minorities off the hook.<BR/><BR/>Seems better to take the high road; call it all wrong, and focus on the real issue of addressing all racism, not just the unpopular kind.<BR/><BR/>(OBTW, before you fire back, I'm pro AA and have my mother's [God rest her soul] NAACP pin on a pedestal at home.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26434163.post-48593921610363721672009-03-18T06:18:00.000-07:002009-03-18T06:18:00.000-07:00The point of linking power to a definition of race...The point of linking power to a definition of race is not to let minorities off the hook. Rather, such a definition acknowledges that, because of the history or racism and the power structure in this country, a prejudiced minority and a prejudiced white are not the same thing. Both are wrong, but not identical. Such a definition also acknowledges that racism does not just exist on an individual basis. It is very collective. So, while not all individual whites have "power" they are part of a collective power structure.Kevin Locketthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08238649458932164077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26434163.post-26863377838144777442009-03-17T14:21:00.000-07:002009-03-17T14:21:00.000-07:00yes, next issue, please...hurry up before Caledon ...yes, next issue, please...hurry up before Caledon starts wasting his/her time stalking my comments again!Conscious Thoughthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16862839708434698986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26434163.post-73344437406877507822009-03-17T13:29:00.000-07:002009-03-17T13:29:00.000-07:00The horse you are beating is not only dead, it has...The horse you are beating is not only dead, it has been cremated. Argument framed, dissentors racist. Next issue -Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com