Tuesday, February 07, 2012

On Proof and Election Fraud

Sean Cranley seems to think I am dodging him on the voter ID issue. Not so Sean. The thing is, like most issues, we see them very differently. You would like to believe that voter fraud is virtually non-existant, hasn't been proven to be a problem to your satisfaction and is therefore unnecessary. I on the other hand don't view "proof to Sean's satisfaction" as the standard before proceeding with legislation. As a lifelong observer of human nature, I find it incredible that anyone would believe that voter fraud wouldn't occur. So the same people willing to slash the tires of vans lined up to take Republicans to the polls wouldn't vouch for the identity of someone willing to vote for a Democrat? The dead never voted in Chicago? Republicans, whom you otherwise regard with unconcealed scorn, are greedy power hungry sob's, no, they won't cheat will they Sean? Look at the article in today's Journal Times Sean. It appears as though a Dem is in a bit of trouble for forging the signature of his own brother and mother in the recall Wangaard effort. But he wouldn't cheat in an actual election, right Sean?

So Sean and I disagree. How do we resolve such issues in a representative government? We elect representatives who in turn vote for legislative changes. We have done so and now we have a reasonable law that requires a valid ID for voting purposes. The law makes it as easy as possible to comply with the law. Similar laws have survived legal challenges. So there you have it.

But Sean wants proof of a problem. Though I doubt he has the same standard for other legislation. For example, despite liberals protestations, man made global warming hasn't been proven, nor has it been proven to be a problem on balance if true, but somehow I doubt Sean required proof before jumping on that bandwagon.

And finally, why must we adopt your standard Sean? Why don't you prove that voter fraud doesn't occur? Prove that Dem operatives throughout the state are not rounding up volunteers to drive around to various polling stations to vote multiple times. Prove it ain't so Sean.


GearHead said...

While you are at it, why not have Sean prove Root River Siren is a legitimate news source? Along with the Daily Kos? Because he sure doesn't mind using them to support his absurd positions.

Why not prove Kathleen Falk will be the Democrat nominee, even though she doesn't have two nickels to rub together for her own fundraising? How can that be, after losing a few state-wide elections already? LOL. You see, some of us are pretty sure cash won't be a problem, because da union still has plenty of it. But then there is that pesky question of how to "coordinate" when it is against the law to. Not to worry, since that has never stopped them before. Expect helpful interference from Obama's AG, being they have a penchant for sticking their nose into the affairs of States for their own benefit.

Yep, union-driven recall, and Sean is nothing more than a useful idiot towards that end. And then he wonders why some of us are concerned about vote fraud?

Anonymous said...

Scott Walker will be the Democratic candidate by write-in vote.

Sean Cranley said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Sean Cranley said...

I oppose ANY kind of election fraud including the kinds engaged in routinely by Republicons, like voter caging and directing people to the wrong polling places or citing the wrong voting day. And don't get me started on the blackbox electronic voting. I oppose the law because I believe in the right of citizens to vote without unnecessary impediments put in their way in this case intentionally for crass political advantage.

Denis I can't prove a negative, but I can show why the oft repeated notion that there is wide spread voter fraud by either side in Wisconsin is just pure stupidity. We've all heard the allegations (which Denis essentially just regurgitated) of bus loads of voters showing up at the polls to supposedly vote illegally (as though using buses/vans to pick up voters and take them to the poll is uncommon or illegal). Yet they've never been caught! Imagine maintaining operational secrecy election after election while recruiting 100s/1000s of people to commit felonies at their own risk with no chance of tangible personal gain and no way of even guaranteeing success.

They all would have had to register at the poll and therefore, some how all be provided with fake utility bills from across the ward with real addresses while not being fingered by poll workers who know their neighborhoods and neighbors. Or they have to vote in the name of lots of other people who are already registered but NONE of whome will go to vote before the "fraudsters" which would lead to arrest and notoriety when ONE of the fraudsters shows up and is asked to vote and gives the same and address as someone who has already voted. It must also be certain the none of these legit voters will show up afterward to vote, leading to widespread news stories about the DOCUMENTED fraud and an ensueing investigation.

And this would have to happen thousands of times across Wisconsin in a single day, seemlessly with no glitches, to have even the smallest chance of changing election results during the closest of elections. And this supposedly goes on year after year!? Remember, if even one gets caught, the whole operation is blown and that one will surely turn in the others and the ring leaders to investigators in a plea deal. You guys must really think the Dems and their Union Thugs are black ops geniouses! If only they would put their amazing talents into service for good instead of evil. Imagine what they could accomplish!

My god the things the right-wing radio and the Fox News will convince you people to imagine and be afraid of!

If you really believe this crap, why did't you and other like-minded people get together and offer a substantial reward for someone to come clean or infiltrate one of these operations? That begs the question, why hasn't the Republican Party of Wisconsin not offered such an award? Hmmmm, could it be the party bosses know something you don't, but want you to keep being a believer?

Republican AG JB Van Hollen conducted an extensive investigation into this matter and you know he would have LOVED to come up with the goods, but he (like Bush appointed Fed Atty Steven Biskupic) didn't, he found something like three cases. THREE! And this supposedly justifies the $5 million price tag and imposing great difficulty on legitimate voters to excercise their franchise? Only if your purposes cynically partisan and political.

You guys kill me. Let's see you wiggle around them apples.

Sean Cranley said...

Yup, No plausible answer from the pro-vote suppression, faithful fraud conspiracy theory believers. Just as I suspected.

If you support a law you ought to be able to justify it and defend it. FAIL!

Sean Cranley said...