Sunday, December 23, 2007

Union Costs

"A decision to outsource the work of one of the city's smallest departments could end up costing Racine big, union officials said."

That was the first line in a Journal Times article concerning the city's decision to hire a private company to handle the Management Information System department.

The "big cost" of such a move would not be because the private company is more expensive or less competent but rather because the city could lose money in arbitration. City officials are willing to take that risk as "we don't have the resources or the stable of qualified employees" to get the job done according to City Administrator Ben Hughes.

The dispute it seems centers around the city employee's pensions, their job security, their pay etc... and while that is no doubt important for them, it is worth remembering that government's purpose is to serve the public in the most efficient manner. It is not the function of government to ensure good jobs and high salaries for government employees.

It is my hope that the city's decision will not cost us big. If union officials and current state law prevents city officials from acting in the best interests of the public, then the public, on this issue at least, will be ruled by unelected union leaders. Now that is a big cost.

43 comments:

colt said...

Colt is far from a fan of City unions but on this I will side with them:
1) I belive the contract is signed the right time would be the next time the contract is up
2) There is no savings watch the debate (you can get copies at CAR 25) The city saids there is no savings so why then? Even the J-T reported there is no savings
3) As we speak the new comany is on site AND the staff of this comany is making it known how "Dumb" the Racine MIS Dept is so the MIS who have been offered jobs know they will not last very long. Not only that MIS can easly claim that the City has created a hostile work place (and yes they have documented this with I understand recordings!)
4) The no bid contract $800,000+ on a no bid contract? Hello?
We are not talking about a monator for $200. or a cart for $50.
$800,000 on a no bid.
5) Becuse the Mayor can not get along with one person (who was insulted in a meeting with others in the room and this person is sueing on that too) he will gut an entire dept?

I understand becuse he has issues with Parks that is why the Mayor started gunning to cut centers. Only the huge outcry stoped that.
I like the Mayor he has done a lot for Racine however on this issue he is wrong and the City will lose the case the case with the H.R. Director and the Insult case and who gets to pay for that WE DO.

My firm belife is that Becker will not serve out his full term he will use the conections he has made with the Great Lakes and other Green groups to move up.
He knows can can not win another election and a recall (if the right cause was found) could start
I would find it interesting to see if Parks union folks have been talking to Fire and Police union folks

The issue here is not evil unions costing the city money the issue here is one man's thinking that he rises above all else

$800,000+ no bid contract

Lastly I would like to apolgie to Q.A. I thought when I heard him speak on this talking about the gutting of police and fire that he was fearmongering I was wrong he was very right.

Maybe we can get Q.A to start the Recall

DropZone said...

we need to recharter the city removing the Mayor's position. 12 cities in WI have replaced them with a City Admin/Coucil type Govt... and it works, saving us a Mayor's salary, trips, expenses and EGO...

Colt said...

I like Becker he has done some great things for the City.
Right now I just do not understand what he is doing or why.
When you LIE about the City saving money
and you LIE about what is going on in the Parks Department
the truth will come out folks talk Colt hears checks facts and lets folks know.
One would hope the Newspaper would

Can cuts be made ending jobs yes they can and yes that is hard on those being fired but that is life.
The Mayor needs to be truthful about what is going on.

Anonymous said...

Outsource all workers to Asia...then you can starve the American worker, they will die, and Scrooge's comment about depleting the world population would come true...God knows Bush and Co. do it in poor nations...

Nemo said...

Anon, some words to live by:

"Better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt" - Mark Twain*

Anonymous said...

The TRUTH hurts, now doesn't it, Nemo...in fact, I think your job is expendable, and any job you get should have the pay cut, no benefits, and no vacation time...just like friends of mine.

Anonymous said...

Lake Lucerne...move up there where all white people live?

Nemo said...

Anon (12:56):
What TRUTH are you talking about? If you are trying to imply that outsourcing is going to displace all our jobs, wouldn’t we see that reflected in the unemployment rate? Last I checked that rate was at historic lows. So low in fact, that the left has embraced illegal immigration because, among other things, “there are jobs that Americans just won’t do”. If, for some anecdotal reason, you are concerned about jobs leaving the country, shouldn’t we be trying to
create a better business climate? Maybe by lowering taxes and cutting regulations we would stem the outflow and attract businesses from other counties to move here. If that was your point, amen brother!

Anon (1:00):
All are welcome in Forest county.

smallgovsam said...

The functions of a union are like that of a virus - self perpetuation at the expense of the host.

Anonymous said...

The history of unions began with the exploitation of workers by owners, with no work week hour limitations or minimum wage and child labour.

Just what do you find wrong with unions, that owners can no longer own workers and exploit them?

Scrooge...

Anonymous said...

Have you checked out what jobs, and what wages are earned, are created and exist?

...lOW wage...

Nemo said...

Anon (9:24), proof by cliche is not a good forensic technique. The actual numbers on average hourly wages are as follows:

September : $17.54 per hour
October : $17.55 per hour
November : $17.63 per hour

(From USDL Employment Situation Summary, Friday, December 7, 2007)

Note the growth in wages.

Denis, sorry for following this thread in a more general direction. I try to stay on topic, but am forced to respond to banality when I see it. I share smallgovsam’s view of unions. I can’t put it better than he did, but colt’s points did give me pause in this case.

Caledonication said...

The history of unions began with the exploitation of workers by owners, with no work week hour limitations or minimum wage and child labour. Very good, you passed fifth grade Social Studies.

Just what do you find wrong with unions, that owners can no longer own workers and exploit them? Yes little snooty pants, that's exactly right. That and now the unions are the exploiters. Where the money is, the corruption is. Isn't that what you've been preaching to everyone here?

Scrooge... Nazi...
9:21 AM

Anonymous said...
Have you checked out what jobs, and what wages are earned, are created and exist? Have you?

...lOW wage... I'm making more money than both my parents "combined" ever did, now that I am no longer a member of the United Steelworkers Union. BTW, what union is extorting your money?
9:24 AM

Caledonication said...

"Lake Lucerne...move up there where all white people live?"

100% racist comment.

Anonymous said...

The history of unions began with the exploitation of workers by owners, with no work week hour limitations or minimum wage and child labour. Very good, you passed fifth grade Social Studies.
-----------------------------

I ak young folks about this exact history all the time - and they know NOTHING about the start of unions, and union BUSTING!

Anonymous said...

Blogger Caledonication said...

"Lake Lucerne...move up there where all white people live?"

100% racist comment.
--------------------------------

And all the Racine folks that say that they move 'up North' to 'get away from black people', THAT is the RACISM you are talking about.

I have heard THAT RACIST comment for 40 years.

Racine is, by and large, a racist town.

Anonymous said...

...lOW wage... I'm making more money than both my parents "combined" ever did, now that I am no longer a member of the United Steelworkers Union. BTW, what union is extorting your money?
9:24 AM

12:01 PM
----------------------------

Good for you. A house that is worth $145,000.00 today was built for $14,000.00 in 1960; with one family income.

Therefore, you alone should make 10X more $$$ to be even.

Anonymous said...

Just what do you find wrong with unions, that owners can no longer own workers and exploit them? Yes little snooty pants, that's exactly right. That and now the unions are the exploiters. Where the money is, the corruption is. Isn't that what you've been preaching to everyone here?

Scrooge... Nazi...
9:21 AM
---------------------------------

My Father had a small business in Racine for 50 years - a WWII veteran of the infantry. Today's capitalism jackels ate him up, in the greed and avarice of today.

I have never belonged to a Union - though, as a Catholic, my Faith has a long history of defending Unions as a human instrument to gain just wages and conditions for the worker.

Can you say 'Polish Solidarity Trade Union bringing down communism'?

...and Lech Walesa?

Anonymous said...

Blogger Nemo said...

Anon (9:24), proof by cliche is not a good forensic technique. The actual numbers on average hourly wages are as follows:

September : $17.54 per hour
October : $17.55 per hour
November : $17.63 per hour

(From USDL Employment Situation Summary, Friday, December 7, 2007)
--------------------------------

AVERAGE means NOTHING!

If you talk the Median (middle) wage, and then the percentile (percentage groupings) groups, then you would have something.

http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_nat.htm#b00-0000

Median HOUSEHOLD income:
United States $43,318

http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/2005-11-29-wage_x.htm

http://www.epinet.org/content.cfm/datazone_dznational

Caledonication said...

Anonymous said...
The history of unions began with the exploitation of workers by owners, with no work week hour limitations or minimum wage and child labour. Very good, you passed fifth grade Social Studies.
-----------------------------

I ak young folks about this exact history all the time - and they know NOTHING about the start of unions, and union BUSTING!

11:45 AM
Ohhh, I'll bet you do. You probably just walk around all day looking for young folk to ask about the history of unions. Maybe those kids you asked all went to school in Racine?

Anonymous said...
Blogger Caledonication said...

"Lake Lucerne...move up there where all white people live?"

100% racist comment.
--------------------------------

And all the Racine folks that say that they move 'up North' to 'get away from black people', THAT is the RACISM you are talking about.

I have heard THAT RACIST comment for 40 years.

Racine is, by and large, a racist town.

11:48 AM

I've never heard anyone, ever, say that they moved or are moving up North to get away from black people. But, just for the sake of argument, individuals can (within their means, obviously) move whereever they want. If someone moves away from Racine, it could be for a multitude of reasons. Also, if the main reason they move is because of black people, that in itself doesn't make them racist. It very well could mean that there is something going on with the blacks in their community that makes them wish to live elsewhere. Perhaps some of the blacks are making "whitey" uncomfortable? If Racine is, as you indicate, by and large, a racist town, then the majority of the racists would have to be black, to run "whitey" up North.


Anonymous said...
...lOW wage... I'm making more money than both my parents "combined" ever did, now that I am no longer a member of the United Steelworkers Union. BTW, what union is extorting your money?
9:24 AM

12:01 PM
----------------------------

Good for you. A house that is worth $145,000.00 today was built for $14,000.00 in 1960; with one family income.

Therefore, you alone should make 10X more $$$ to be even.

11:51 AM

Brilliant, use the cost of housing as an argument. Housing pricing didn't go up as a result of corporate greed, they went up as a result of individual greed. Unions have nothing to do with the price of housing. Did any union in history increase wages by a multiple of ten? Get real. Your analogy is ridiculous. How about using a credible indicator, like quality of life?


Anonymous said...
Just what do you find wrong with unions, that owners can no longer own workers and exploit them? Yes little snooty pants, that's exactly right. That and now the unions are the exploiters. Where the money is, the corruption is. Isn't that what you've been preaching to everyone here?

Scrooge... Nazi...
9:21 AM
---------------------------------

My Father had a small business in Racine for 50 years - a WWII veteran of the infantry.

Yeah, yeah, yeah... We know, you told us already.

Today's capitalism jackels ate him up, in the greed and avarice of today.

And yet today (and once again) you are still crying about it... How come a union didn't save his business?

I have never belonged to a Union - though, as a Catholic, my Faith has a long history of defending Unions as a human instrument to gain just wages and conditions for the worker.

You know. I'm not a Doctor, but I play one on tv. Bend over while I give you this shot. (What's your point?)

Can you say 'Polish Solidarity Trade Union bringing down communism'?

...and Lech Walesa?

Can you say, "Unions used to be for the people and also accomplished many good things, which still benefit some workers today. Unfortunately, those very same unions have turned into the blood sucking leeches that they claim to fight"?

Just like I tell non-taxpayers that they have no business telling taxpayers what should be done with tax dollars, I'll tell you non-union member / dues payer, not to tell me about unions.

Anonymous said...

Ubions represent less than 10% of the work force in the US.

Get a clue.

With that stat, it is NON-unioniztion that is harming the US.

Anonymous said...

[b]Ed[/b]

[u][i]Way to be bold[/i][/u]

Anonymous said...

Can you say, "Unions used to be for the people and also accomplished many good things, which still benefit some workers today. Unfortunately, those very same unions have turned into the blood sucking leeches that they claim to fight"?

Just like I tell non-taxpayers that they have no business telling taxpayers what should be done with tax dollars, I'll tell you non-union member / dues payer, not to tell me about unions.
------------------------

Hmmm...a self-hating Union member.

See a shrink.

Caledonication said...

Here, I'll bold you instead so you can appear even more stupid.

Ubions represent less than 10% of the work force in the US.

Get a clue.

With that stat, it is NON-unioniztion that is harming the US.


You haven't said anything to make your case and you spell like a three year-old. Blah, blah, blah, blah...

[b]Ed[/b]

[u][i]Way to be bold[/i][/u]


Oooooh, you are the clever one aren't you?

"Can you say, "Unions used to be for the people and also accomplished many good things, which still benefit some workers today. Unfortunately, those very same unions have turned into the blood sucking leeches that they claim to fight"?

Just like I tell non-taxpayers that they have no business telling taxpayers what should be done with tax dollars, I'll tell you non-union member / dues payer, not to tell me about unions.
------------------------

Hmmm...a self-hating Union member.

See a shrink."


Sigh...
Even when I bold my responses so that they are easier to read and distinguish from the post I am commenting on, you are still unable to read and comprehend them. I would call you a retard, but that would be an insult to retards everywhere. No, not the Downs Syndrome type, the real retards, who (amazingly) have not yet disappeared from the gene pool.

You see a shrink and get yourself some more meds while your there, freak. And STFU you PAB douchebag.

Caledonication said...

Sucks to post anonymously, doesn't it anon? Guess you were too smart to realize that you can't edit a post if your not logged in as some account.

BWAHAHOOOHAHAHrrrrrmmmmm....

dork.

Nemo said...

Anon (12:07 pm) said:

"AVERAGE means NOTHING!

If you talk the Median (middle) wage, and then the percentile (percentage groupings) groups, then you would have something."

I wouldn't say nothing. The average has it's uses. The median wage for the entire country has it's uses too, but is largely meaningless given that the cost of living differs by quite a bit from state to state. The median income for a family of 4 in Wisconsin is $73,395 (Census Bureau Median Family Income By Family Size, Cases Filed Between February 1, 2007, and October 14, 2007, Inclusive). If you really think that unions are such a good thing for the US, I've got some lovely Ford stock for you.

Anonymous said...

Caledonication said...
You see a shrink and get yourself some more meds while your there, freak. And STFU you PAB douchebag.
6:42 PM
____________________________________

You have shown yourself for what you are, a low-life, swearing Racinian. Your kids must be learning nice things from you.

Anonymous said...

Don't know where you get your info...

Median household income

Wisconsin $46,538

http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/2005-11-29-wage_x.htm

WAGES STATE BY STATE

Median household income

Connecticut $56,409
New Jersey $56,356
Maryland $54,302
Massachusetts $52,713
New Hampshire $52,409
Alaska $52,391
Minnesota $50,750
Virginia $50,028
Colorado $49,248
Delaware $48,770
California $48,440
Hawaii $48,274
Washington $48,185
Illinois $47,367
Utah $46,709
Wisconsin $46,538

Anonymous said...

http://www.news.wisc.edu/3378

Wisconsin's tax system compounds inequality, imposing twice the tax rate on the bottom 20 percent of families (13.6 percent) as it does on the top 1 percent (6.4 percent).

Caledonication said...

Caledonication said...
You see a shrink and get yourself some more meds while your there, freak. And STFU you PAB douchebag.
6:42 PM
____________________________________

You have shown yourself for what you are, a low-life, swearing Racinian. Your kids must be learning nice things from you.


You have shown yourself for what you are, if you forgot, go back and read my post. You wish you could have kids...

Nemo said...

Anonymous said...

"Don't know where you get your info..."

My data comes from the Census Bureau Median Family Income By Family Size Report, Cases Filed Between February 1, 2007, and October 14, 2007, Inclusive. This data is from 2007, not 2005 like yours (You could have really scored big points by using data from even earlier.) Furthermore, your data is an average of all size households. Mine is specifically a family of 4.

Quote, "AVERAGE means NOTHING". Pwned!

Anonymous said...

Blogger Caledonication said...

You see a shrink and get yourself some more meds while your there, freak. And STFU you PAB douchebag.
6:42 PM

You have shown yourself for what you are, if you forgot, go back and read my post. You wish you could have kids...

9:07 PM
-----------------------------------

Potty-mouthed man...

Caledonication said...

Anon, everyone deserves to be treated with decency and respect; except when they (relentlessly) act like you do. You are consistently condescending to one and all. You constantly make backhanded comments, then expect to be responded to like an adult. You made your bed, so don't complain about it. Sometimes stronger words are necessary for emphasis. I was in the Navy and worked in a steel mill, believe me, I've got my kid gloves on when it comes to responding to you. I will push the limits with you (in particular) and I will wear you down. I have all the time in the world.

Anonymous said...

Colt-

You should stop listening to the one side of the story presented by Paul Burdick and the city hall rumor mill.

You would also be well served to take a look at how the city lets its contracts. This is an extension of an existing contract.

Anonymous said...

Caledonication said...

Anon,...I was in the Navy and worked in a steel mill, believe me, I've got my kid gloves on when it comes to responding to you.
------------------------------

...and some of my closest friends are a Vietnam Green Beret instructor, a Vietnam special ops/Navy, and a Middle East Navy Seal...and my Dad was a Scout in WWII who did hand to hand killing.

So what?

Selfishness and Greed are what they are...vices that destroy humanity, and lead us to Hell.

Anonymous said...

Caledonication said...

Anon, ... I will push the limits with you (in particular) and I will wear you down. I have all the time in the world.

8:48 AM
----------------------------------

Never will happen.

I have lived in Racine my entire life, amongst racists, elitists, rednecks, Johnson Wax elitists, the Racine Police, and landlords...etc........

I know the Truth the Jesus Christ, and not "atheistic capitalism", is the Truth.

But give it a try.

Anonymous said...

Denis-

Your blogs are deteriorating into JT territory. You may need to consider moderating.

Caledonication said...

"...and some of my closest friends are a Vietnam Green Beret instructor, a Vietnam special ops/Navy, and a Middle East Navy Seal...and my Dad was a Scout in WWII who did hand to hand killing."

Wow! We must have some of the same friends. Difference between you and I, I don't needs to use them to try and compensate for lack of substance. Also, don't try and have us believe that you actually knew your father. I mean, maybe you could narrow it down to five or six of your cousins, but you never realy knew him, right?

My references to the steel mill and Navy were regarding the use of certain language, but you wouldn't catch that, because you are not very bright.

"Never will happen."

It will happen.

"I have lived in Racine my entire life, amongst racists, elitists, rednecks, Johnson Wax elitists, the Racine Police, and landlords...etc........"

Hmmm, must've been easy considering that you've lived with yourself for your entire life, as well.

"Selfishness and Greed are what they are...vices that destroy humanity, and lead us to Hell.

I know the Truth the Jesus Christ, and not "atheistic capitalism", is the Truth."


I am neither an Atheist or a Capitalist. Honestly anon, read your own posts. Do you realize how psychotic you sound?

"Denis-

Your blogs are deteriorating into JT territory. You may need to consider moderating."


Then you would have to find a new home.

Anonymous said...

Caledonication,
--------------------------------
Do you actually consider yourself either clever or intelligent?

Next...

Caledonication said...

"Caledonication,
--------------------------------
Do you actually consider yourself either clever or intelligent?

Next..."


Among other things, yes. Do you actually think your post was either clever or intelligent enough to end with "next..."? Yeah, nobody else did either.

Next!

Anonymous said...

Enough time wasted reading a right wing coffee club...bye...

Caledonication said...

Don't let the door hit you in the ass.

On second thought... let the door hit you on the ass.

Jesus Christ said...

"I know the Truth the Jesus Christ, and not atheistic capitalism, is the Truth."

I can assure you Free Racinians, this anonymous poster does not know anything about the truth or me.

I have spoken...