Anon's distorted interpretation of the following quote from Pope John Paul II is used to support his desire for communism.
“It is necessary to state once more the characteristic principle of Christian social doctrine: the goods of this world are originally meant for all. The right to private property is valid and necessary, but it does not nullify the value of this principle. Private property, in fact, is under a "social mortgage," which means that it has an intrinsically social function, based upon and justified precisely by the principle of the universal destination of goods .”
Anon, the US is not a theocracy. We have no established religion. We have a secular government by design. We don't take orders from the pope, nor would he want it that way, I am sure.
Even if you accept the notion that private property is under a "social mortgage", it is a huge leap to conclude that government should hold the title to said mortgage. The pope said nothing of the sort in the quote you offer, nor I suspect has he ever indicated that the state should play that role. In fact, the opposite is true. The pope was a strong opponent of the communism that you evidently wish to force upon others.
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But Denis, he has forgotten more than you know about ekonomix. Or he has owned a business here since before the Pilgrims landed. Or he beat up Tony Romo's wheelchair-bound father. . .
I think he has forgetten everything he knew about economics.
English Property Laws, which define our concept of ownership, is a creation of man.
Commie? You are a smear master. When did I ever use the word 'commie'?
You guys lie like rugs.
Want to debate 'Moral Sentiments'?
My Grandparents came from Poland.
My Father owned a small factory in Racine until his death...I ASSUME it operated under capitalism.
You guys are liars.
So, Denis, your world is 'the end of History', as Leo Strauss and Francis Fukyama, from your Univ. alma mater, believed? You have arrived at the cosmological endpoint with capitalism, have you?
Prove it.
Liberalism - it is possible to make $1 and give back $1.50 of it for the common good.
Wherever Christ and His disciples went they depended on the generosity of those who had more than they did for food and shelter. Go ahead and try to legislate generosity in this country. Oh wait, back to liberalism. The funny thing is that none of the folks who want what others have will in turn be generous with those who are truly needy. So go play with your turd posts.
Well anon, if property ownership is really subject to a "social mortgage" do tell us who or what is the mortgage holder. If your answer is God, that is great, and the issue would be between God and the property owner. Now if you or some collective is the mortgage holder, you really are desribing communism, wherein the collective owns the property. So please elaborate on your interpretation of John Paul's "social mortgage" idea. Who owns the property anon; the current owner, a collective, or God?
Mortgages?
Did you see how they (financial institutions) gamed the capitalist system, extricated hundreds of billions, and left the taxpayer to bail them out? (The FED!)
Now, times that by 'as much as they can get away with'.
Can you say "Universal destination of material goods"? Not a libertarian concept.
I see you are dodging the question anon.
The 'theocracy' of America is the god of the market beliefs, and its all controlling appetite. I take John Paul II's studied comments over that any day.
What am I dodging? It may take awhile, but True Justice will prevail in this pseudo democratic/republic. Capitalism eventually eats the poor, and/or lets them starve (look at corn and global food prices - seed control by transnational corps). Capitalism cares not for anything but maximuum profit at any cost.
Have not read much regarding the the nations in Europe that practice more humane/controlled forms of capitalism, have you.
Americans always think they are the "End of History'.
Actually, our polluting and consuming ways may actually end history. That is irony for you!
I got lots of John Paul II links on the matter of 'unbridled capitalism'.
Navratil,
Do you know what percentage of people own the title to said mortgages of the goods of the world? Lots of figures on this. THAT is 'enlightened' capitalism? Much more like universal slavery.
http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html
http://www.faculty.fairfield.edu/faculty/hodgson/Courses/so11/stratification/income&wealth.htm
http://mailman1.u.washington.edu/pipermail/pophealth/2006-April/001241.html
The Survey of Consumer Finance figures, without the Forbes data added in,
show that America's richest 1 percent held just over one-third of the
nation's wealth in 2004. Another 36.1 percent went to the next richest 9
percent of Americans.
The rest of the nation's wealth -- less than one-third -- sat with
America's bottom 90 percent.
In 2004, in other words, America's wealthiest 1 percent held more wealth
than the entire bottom 90 percent combined, even without figuring into the
mix the wealth of America's 400 richest people.
With the Forbes 400 figured in, America's richest 1 percent held not just
more net wealth in 2004 than the nation's bottom 90 percent, but over $2.5
trillion more.
What are you dodging? You are dodging a clearly stated question. If you assert that property is "socially mortgaged" than it is owned by society. This is communism anon. Or perhaps you meant that what we think we own is really mortgaed from God. I could respect that view. Or is property owned by property owners? This is the question you are dodging. Who owns property, society, God, or property owners?
You don't accept Catholic Social Teaching that the goods of the world are meant for all.
I understand that.
Then call Catholicism Communistic, because these are Catholic teachings, not the Acton Institute and Michael Novak...
You think you can say 'me capitalist - good', and then claim I am a Communist?
Look at capitalistic/Democratic Sweden, England, Germany, Taiwan, Japan, et al...
Quit lying.
Property control is determined by the evolution of English property law, which serves, surprise, those owning property.
Denis, Did you ever learn to think outside the elitist circle that you most obviously inhabit?
Yes Denis - stop being an elitist as you continue to pay for police, fire, war, schools, trains, welfare checks, . . .
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