Tuesday, January 10, 2012

Fire Away!

Mitt Romney has come under fire for saying he likes to fire people. Perhaps he will back away from the notion, but I think it needs an unapologetic defense.

We all fire people every day. Every consumer choice involves hiring one while in effect firing everyone else. Would anyone want it any other way? If you hire someone to mow your lawn and they show up late and do a lousy job, you wouldn't want to be stuck with that employee.

Now lets take a look at the people whom we can't easily fire. Tenured teachers are one example. Many civil servants have great job security. Yet not all off these folks are performing well, but we are stuck with them. Are we better off for this?

The more people there are that we can't fire, the less free we are. Enjoy what remains of your right to fire, and hire.


GearHead said...

If the lousy worker belongs to either a public or private union, good luck getting rid of them.

Sean Cranley said...

First of all, the notion that you, Denis or any other average citizen has or should have the ability to fire public empoloyees is absurd.

Secondly, know your history! There is a really good reason that there is a system in place requiring due cause to fire public employees. You see prior to the civil service system, the "to the winner goes the spoils" system was was common place. Victorious politicians would fire the existing public employees, putting them out of work and would hire their corrupt and incompetent cronies, leading to extremely currupt and incompetent governance. Not something to which we should yearn to return!

Thirdly, the notion (that I long ago refuted here) that there are all these bad teachers out there that need to be fired is the ludicrous result of long standing and coordinated GOPropaganda.

And finally, I look forward to watching Mitt Romney's role as job destroyer and exporter at Bain Capitol laid bare before the electorate. He made his fortune as a vulture (now there's a poster!)

That being said, among the Republican field only Romney and Huntsman are presidential. The rest are nutty and/or corrupt and/or beltway insiders.

GearHead said...

First, Sean, the notion that public employees shouldn't be fired is absurd. Why should they be a protected class? Until the public unions got in our faces, I couldn't have cared less what their politics were. All I asked is they do their jobs with a minimum level of competency, outrageous and unsustainable benefites notwithstanding.

Second, your notion against spoiling the winners has unfortunatly played out again and again for the worse. Haven't you noticed the big cities with generations of Democrat leadership are the ones with the worst services and highest taxes? Like DC, Chicago, New Orleans, Detroit Milwaukee and most of CA? Victorious Democrat polititians have rewarded their corrupt and incompetent cronies forever... why do you think they have so many problems? No,it isn't Bushes fault!

Third, how do you know there ISN'T bad teachers? Every industry has their share of slackers and incompetents. Those businesses that want to remain viable get rid of the bottom 10% on a yearly basis to cull the herd. But I'll make it easy for you. If the teacher is your friend, they probably are the obstinate 10 percenters.

Finally, are you suggesting that Obama is virtuous because he never had to make any decisions?

Denis Navratil said...

Sean, re your misreading of my argument and subsequent claim that an average citizen should have the ability to fire public employees is a classic example of a straw man argument. No, I shouldn't be able to fire a police officer or a public school teacher, and yes there should be and are reasonable protections for them. However, someone ought to be able to assess the performance of public employees and if need be protect the public from their incompetence. This can't be done with a public union stranglehold on contracts, so perhaps Governor Walker's common sense reforms will provide the tools needed to allow for greater accountability among public employees.

Sean, I am glad you recognize the problems of a political spoils system. But as GH correctly notes above, that is what we have anyway in most cities, and they are all Dems. Rather than offer excessive protections, a better idea might be to allow greater flexibility in hiring and firing, with an active electorate prepared to fire crony-rewarding politicians. That won't happen in the Dem stronghold cities, so the next best option is to have smaller government so average folks are empowered to hire and fire as they see fit. A perfect example is the growing trend towards voucher schools, a notion most vigorously fought by, you guessed it, the unions, who would prefer not to be held accountable by average folks looking out for their kids.

Sean Cranley said...

GH, I NEVER said public employees should never be fired or that they should be a protected class or that there aren't incompetents out there.

So you lead off with a lie, go on to spout baseless Cult of Con dogmatic truisms, to which Denis follows suit. Yadda yadda yadda, blah blah blah.

I know you guys believe in smaller government. I think you beleive in smaller arguments, smaller facts and smaller minds as well.

Sean Cranley said...

Hey look Rick Perry and I agree, Romney is a vulture!

Which is representative of a sick and twisted version of capitalism the is a huge part of what has gone wrong with the American economy over the last couple of decades. And it's NOT about "making decisions" it's about a greedy, predatory business model: http://articles.latimes.com/2012/jan/10/news/la-pn-rick-perry-casts-mitt-romney-as-a-greedy-wall-street-vulture-20120110

Perry started slashing away at Romney’s record as chief executive at Bain Capital on Monday, but was more caustic Tuesday in condemning the firm’s practice of making money in corporate takeover deals that sometimes triggered job losses.

"They’re vultures that are sitting out there on the tree limb, waiting for the company to get sick, and then they sweep in, they eat the carcass, they leave with that, and they leave the skeleton,” Perry told about 100 seniors here at the Sun City retirement complex.

Perry took the analogy further in comments afterward to reporters.

“We have allowed these greedy people on Wall Street to take advantage” of small firms going through tough times, he said, alluding to the money that Bain collected in deals that put 150 people out of work at a photo-album manufacturing company in Gaffney, S.C., and cost steelworker jobs at a plant in Georgetown, S.C.

“Instead of trying to work with them to find a way to keep the jobs and to get them back on their feet, it’s all about how much money can we make, how quick can we make it, and then get out of town and find the next carcass to feed upon.”

GeareHead said...

If you like Dunkin Donuts, Staples, Dominos, Burger King - all of whom employ thousands of workforce and are profitable companies, you should thank Bain Capital for providing the grease and expertise in rescuing them. What a tremendous success story!

And yeah Sean, in the free market some companies will go down the tubes. In that case, parting them out is the best anyone can hope for. Failure is an inherent part of risk. Romney's firm made buckets of cash because they had the stones to prop up companies the smart crowd said were worthless. With great risk should come great rewards. That is something to be proud of, Sean.

What we get with your crowd is 500MM flushed down the toilet with the likes of Solyndra, and I'm hearing their execs are getting bonuses. Scuse me, but the presidents track record of picking winners sucks! He ain't no Romney.

Your arguments have been more delusional than usual. Off your meds again?

GearHead said...

Sorry Denis for letting Sean tempt me away from your original point. I'm looking forward to government services getting better because hopefully the bad actors will be the first to be booted out the door. Only then will rest of the government herd get the hint that in order to keep their jobs, they better start producing. And they will, once their obnoxious tyrant union stewards get the ax.

Downtown Brown said...

Sean how about all of those Solar companies that got huge piles of Obama money and have gone belly up..all those jobs lost.. How many jobs did Prez Zero creat as a community organizer? as the "ever Present Obama" in the Illinois senate, or as the Part time Senator from IlL? What jobs has he ever done? Flipped a burger, raked a lawn, shoveled snow? anything? In his 2 books about himself he never once referred to any labor he had done at the ripe old age of 35ish. Romney made jobs saved businesses, and parceled up others when there was no salvation available. 100's of thousands of jobs were saved or created..even a few "shovel ready" ones under Romney as both a businessman and the Gov. of Mass. The "Shovel Readies" Obama was promising failed to appear..and instead a Trillion bucks was shoved into the pockets of millions of Govt employees to keep them fat and happy at the taxpayers expense. No thanks Prez Zero..we can and will do better. Romney 2012 and a Conservative Senate.

Sean Cranley said...

As Walker supporters you of course are showing your GOPocrisy by complaining about Corruption, Cronyism and incompetence, which are ever emerging halmarks of his "administration".

Btw, do you folks have any sources on your claims about Romney, or am I supposed to accept your word and your personal expertise on the matter?

Sean Cranley said...

Well today Mitt got endorsed by a TV host who's entire show is all about "You're fired"!

The Mitt and the Donald, whadda couple o dorks!