Sunday, November 16, 2008

The Leftist Imposition

"Don't impose your beliefs on me!!!"

You will invariably get some version of the above argument if you ever discuss the abortion question with a liberal, so be prepared for it.

Never mind that I was not imposing anything on anybody. Rather, I was trying to sort out their beliefs on just what is that mass of matter inside a pregnant woman. I pleaded for scientific evidence or any evidence whatsoever that the material was something other than a human life. They (liberals over at had no evidence to offer but they nonetheless insisted that I stop imposing my beliefs on them.

Anyway, imposing beliefs or values is what active citizens and governments do. Advocating for universal health care is an attempt to impose beliefs/values on others. So is lowering or raising the tax rate. So is installing a stop sign.

So the next time a liberal insists that you stop imposing your values or beliefs on them, realize that what they are actually saying is that they should impose the laws and you should obey them.


Urban Pioneer said...

Great points Denis. I noticed how the dissenters constantly referred to your religion on this topic, and as I read everyone of your postings you never referred to your case via a religion.
As a conservative atheist I can tell u my views are the same as you have relayed here. and I and my wife faced real life examples of Abortion similar to Ann's. Of course saving the LIFE of the mother is paramount. But in the "choice for choices sake" argument it caused great angst.

Many woman I know have been traumatized by Abortion, the fact that Roe vs Wade "created a "right" out of whole cloth is as indefensible as a Partial birth abortion. Do u think if the Case went before any court since 1981 the resulting decision would've been the same? Imagine in January or June of next year Justice Stevens and or Ginsberg retires. Before the new Justice is appointed could the Roberts court overturn the Roe vs. Wade. And then I would ask you to accept the "Law". In fact the court ruled on Dred Scott and it was the Law for many years. So while I agree most of us would like to see less abortions, The decision should be overturned and then each State can create the law that satisfies the majority in that State.

The Fishmonger said...

Denis- without getting into the rest of this argument, I'd like to comment on the idea that if a fetus is alive and is human (has human dna), then it is a human life. This is nonsense. I know it, and you know it. My liver is alive and has human dna and yet, it is not a human life, nor does it deserve to be treated as one. Certainly, a fetus deserves greater respect than a liver, since it can, under proper conditions, grow into a human being. But it also certainly deserves a lesser respect than a fully grown human. The question of abortion and at which stage the "right to life" acrues is full of subtle and difficult issues. Let's not pretend it's black and white. Please don't let the appeals to emotion that you are confronted with lead you to similar appeals in rebuttal.

Bigfoot said...

Not all liberals are pro-choice, just as not all conservatives are fear-mongering fascist racists!

Urban Pioneer said...

Wow I made 2 comments on Blue Racine and got banished!! I'm not sure if it's a feather in my cap or I should be ashamed!! LOL Neither post I made was over the top or insulting and were fact based!! It was on this very subject. I've never been banned before. And I wasn't trying. I guess the blog isn't open to discussion Just the left talking to itself. Thank you for indulging my whining over here. I promise to stop crying and get back to my normal virulent opinionated self in short order.

Anonymous said...

Urban - you'll be allowed back if you say that "George Bush needs to shut the f*** up because he is a f***ing f***wad f***". Also add something intellectual like "anyone who ever says anything bad about The Chosen One for any reason is a f***ing f***wad f***".

Denis Navratil said...

Fishmonger, thanks for the comments but I could do without the "this is nonsense, you know it, I know it" point as it is nothing but an insult. By all means disagree but be assured that if I think something is nonsense I will not try to pass it off as true.

Now to the substance of your point I think it is a rather simple logic problem. If something is alive, it is a life. If it is a life, it belongs to a species. I will ask you the same question that I asked Kay. If this life is not a human life, then what species is it?

Now your liver example is mistaken. It is alive and it has DNA because it is a part of a human life as opposed to an entire human life. To compare a portion of a human life to a human life is a mistake. As such, a liver should not be considered a human life, nor should it be afforded rights like we do with most humans.

You are correct that "right to life" issues are difficult. And I have not made any black and white pronouncements on those issues. You just seemed to assume that I did or would for some reason.

But we can't even begin to address right to life issues without defining, correctly, what a life is. And here I am going to be black and white. Obviously, the thing growing in a woman is a human life. If there is any scientific evidence out there that suggests otherwise, please advise me of it.

And lastly, I find it fascinating that if I make the simple and obviously accurate point that it is a human life inside a pregnant woman, people assume that I have made pronouncements about some of the trickier abortion questions involving rape, incest, mothers health etc... or even about run of the mill convenience abortions. I think this is because if you want to defend abortion generally there are only two ways to go about it. You either have to redefine what a life is or advocate for terminating an innocent life. The former is far easier depite the total lack of evidence to suggest that a very tiny human life is not a human life.

Denis Navratil said...

Urban, just say your sorry and that you will terminate a pregnancy very soon and perhaps you will be invited back.

Anonymous said...

I am 10 1/2 weeks pregnant with my third child. I had an ultrasound at 9 weeks (7 weeks after conception). It might be interesting to someone like fishmonger to google pictures of these babies in their first few weeks of life. At my ultrasound my baby already had arms and legs that he or she was moving around. The heart was beating, the brain is developing. It is amazing. What an insult to all the real women out there who carry these children to say that this is not a human life that they are nurturing in their wombs!

Even if there are many things that we still do not know about brain development in utero and what stage they can feel pain, why would anyone as humane, logical human beings advocate the practice of killing these babies by burning them alive or savagely ripping their bodies apart limb by limb?

I carry my 10 week old baby inside of me and I think of the image I saw on the ultrasound just last week, and my heart aches for the brutal deaths that so many babies go through every day.