Thursday, February 19, 2009

Nation of Cowards

Attorney General Eric Holder recently said that we are a nation of cowards when it comes to speaking candidly on the subjest of race. Is he right?

I think he is. The problem is the political correctness that has been brought to us by leftist intellectuals. The only acceptable conversation on race goes something like this:

The larger society (whites) have oppressed and continue to oppress minorities and must work to rid themselves of the racist attitudes that are the cause of whatever social problem exists in a given minority community.

If you depart from the acceptable conversation, there is a good chance you will be thought a racist.

And since very few people want to go out of their way to be considered racist, they simply avoid the conversation.

And yes, this is cowardly.

We can't just complain about political correctness. We must confront it and the problems that it causes. And, IMHO, the politically correct attitude concerning race encourages minorities to give up while holding racist views themselves, that whites are the cause of their problems. And this prevailing attitude is very harmful to minorities. It is also cowardly to blame others for your own problems.

So yes, we are a nation of cowards.

23 comments:

Anonymous said...

so in your opinion, the cause of said problem are liberals and black people?

Conscious Thought said...

For someone who doesn't like complainers, you sure do alot of blaming others yourself on this blog. This entire blog is entirely based on placing blame on others and complaining. You say it is cowardly to blame others for one's problems, with that said, does that mean you're a coward too?

Your depressing, unrealistic view of the macro society is a message of desparity and a means to feed fuel to your conservative friends beliefs and stereotypes of the "black people are lazy" mantra. It's a way for you to keep something to read about on your blog.

This is cowardly

Denis Navratil said...

Anon, there are individual problems that people of all races have to deal with and then there are problems that are more pervasive among some races. With respect to problems more common among black people, I believe liberalism has been very harmful to blacks generally. To the extent that an individual black person, or any person, has bought into the liberal mindset, then yes, it is probably likely that they have contributed to their own problems. This should not be interpreted to mean that racism among whites does not exist. I believe that it does but it is a small problem IMHO.

CT, I have to go but I will address your brave comments later on.

Denis Navratil said...

CT, I hope you notice the irony in anonymously calling me a coward. Anyway, on to the substance of your argument. For starters, I didn't mention black people or call them lazy - boy it is getting easy to spot the straw man.

As for my complaining, you have two or three years of material here CT, so please find some instances of me blaming others for my problems. You will certainly find that while I do my share of complaining, it is about societal problems rather than any that I am personally facing. It is true that some of the problems affect me, such as certain regulations concerning my business etc... but I typically discuss these obstacles as things that not only affect me but entrepreneurs and ultimately the society as a whole.

And finally CT, remember we were supposed to meet in person a while back. You chickened out for some reason. The offer still stands. Nothing to worry about CT. I don't have a criminal record, no history of violence etc... I'm harmless. Really. You have nothing to fear but fear itself.

Anonymous said...

What are the problems "more common to black people"? Explain this.

I would agree with conscious thought in that you have a very tainted, miniscule view of black people in general. Perhaps from your own personal interactions or lack thereof. Whatever the case, their are bums, school drop outs, criminals, prostitutes, drug addicts, dope pushers and other undesirable of all colors. To focus solely on those who happen to be black, is a purposeful misrepresentation in my view.

Denis Navratil said...

The thing about conversations about race is that there are people like anon and CT, just waiting, it seems, for a mistake to pounce on. And if they don't get one, they make one up. It is interesting that you both brought up black people when my post was about minorities. What made you think I was talking about black people and not Mexicans or Eskimos?

So anon, is this an interrogation or a conversation. It feels more like an interrogation. How about I answer the question about problems more common in the black community and then you answer the same question.

I think incidents of gun violence are more common in the black community? I think unemployment and lower educational levels are a greater problem in the black community. I'm pretty sure black people in the US have a shorter life span than most other races. I think, on average, they don't make as much money as others and have a lower net worth, financially.

This list is not meant to be controversial but rather factual. If you think I am wrong about any of these, let me know.

You claim I have a tainted view of black people. I try to have as realistic a view of people as I can. That is not to say that I can't be wrong sometimes. It is true that people of all races can be dropouts, criminals etc... when have I ever said otherwise? And it is not me that is focused soley on black people - it is you. This post was about minorities. Both of you have turned it into a converstaion exclusively about black people.

conscious Thought said...

Overwhelmingly pedophiles are white males, I think incidents of pedophilia are more common in the white community. Serial murderers are overwhelmingly white. I think organized crime is a greater problem in the white community. Most government corruption defendents are white politicians. I think domestic terrorists (McVeigh, Nichols, etc..) are more common in the white community. Hate crimes, on average are committed by more whites than anyone else. Felony tax fraud and evasion cases are more common in the white community. Corruption in corporate america, price fixing and kickback schemes involves more whites than most other ethnicities. Securities fraud indictment defendants are overwhelmingly white. CrystalMeth is more common in white communities. Addiction to prescription drugs, I could go on and on here...

These are fact. Tell me if i'm making any of this stuff up.

But what makes these problems less important to turn a blind eye to them and instead hyperfocus on the problems that a select few contribute to?

This country will continue to be a nation of cowards as long as we continue to discuss in "us" and "them" terms instead of "we" and "ours"

Anonymous said...

. . . and is a single thing on your ridiculous list BLAMED on someone being white?

Yet, shoot someone over sneakers or cause the police to be called because of a fight over mozzarella sticks in the lobby of a local restaurant and you'll hear how someone had a bad childhood and how I didn't contribute enough time at the community center or pay enough in taxes to be sensitive.

Denis Navratil said...

CT, are the problems you cite greater among white people on a percentage basis or in total. If whites do not have these problems at a greater rate than other races then your examples are meaningless. So I would question whether any of your examples are factual. And anon brings up a good point. Even if your examples are correct, so what? Are they examples of racism afflicting the white community or are they examples of white depravity that make you feel better?

A neighbor said...

Holder's brashness begins to pay off as it spurs discussion - though he is trying to encourage frank discussion between people of different races about race.

The extreme anonymous format used on this blog precludes fully achieving what Holder suggests needs remedying.

Anonymous said...

Neighbor - you are less anonymous than myself because you have clearly indicate dthat you live next to someone. I could be any one of the six billion plus on the planet.

Seriously, would my comments mean any more or less if you knew who I were? I enjoy using the Internet but quite honestly it scares me. I was looking at an art site the other day and something flashed acros the bottom that "among the current vistors was someone from racine, Wisconsin".

Honest discussions do not come from brashness any more than getting your neighbor to engage in conversation could start by throwing a hornet nest through his window.

I'm sorry but pretty much every discussion about race that I have encountered should have had the word "discussion" replaced with "instruction".

Case in point:
1. a pet chimpanzee recently went violently crazy and had to be killed
2. an old joke exists about a monkey doing something (which a chimpanzee is not) as an example of something that is stupid
3. an old, horrible slur about black people uses a monkey to describe them
4. a joke is recently made about a monkey writing the stimulus bill

and here it comes:

5. because Obama is black and theoretically was involved with writing the stimulus bill (I suspect that he wrote as much of the bill as the articles he wrote for Harvard Law Review) the cartoon must be about him and therefore racist
6. We are instructed about how and why the cartoon was offensive even though the entire premise is absolutely ridiculous

Conscious thought said...

Denis, percentage or total you ask...The answer is both. You say my statements are meaningless if these problems don't have higher instances in the white community, well what if they all are more common in the white community? Will you continue to be in denial?

Anon, you and Denis validate my point about trivializing problems common among certian population, while over accentuating problems in others.

Violence is violence and fraud is fraud no matter who commits it. We should be just as concerned of the perps of hate crimes, securities scams, organized and white collar crime as we are about little Jamal or Jose selling crack on the corner.

A neighbor, well said.

Denis Navratil said...

OK CT, please provide the evidence to substantiate your claim that white people are disproportionately involved in organized crime. My guess is that you will need to redefine organized crime such that the activities of Jamal and Jose (to use your stereotypical example)would be excluded.

Also, CT, you accuse me of trivializing the problems of white people. Not so. Remember, the discussion here is about race primarily, not problems. Certainly there are problems among people of all races or nationalities. The difference here is that some people blame the problems common to minorities on white people while there is not a similar phenomenon of people blaming minorities for the problems occuring among white people. You see the difference I trust.

Anonymous said...

. . . and you validate MY point about "instruction".

Is there racism? Yes

How can we combat it? Treat everyone the same

Is this realistic? Probably not but we should try

If this doesn't work should we pass laws and mandates? Good luck, because the people who treat everyone the same will go on treating everyone the same and those who do not treat everyone the same will ignore or work around the law, although it will make money for lots of lawyers

Anonymous said...

From the AP - some "instruction"

Opposing stimulus a "slap" to blacks, Clyburn says

House Majority Whip Jim Clyburn (D-S.C.) says GOP opposition to the stimulus — exemplified by his home state governor — is a "slap in the face" to blacks.

Conscious Thought said...

Denis, since that's the only comment you've made an attempt at countering, i take it you must see some validity in the other issues on my long list.

I would strongly disagree with your statement that there's not a similar phenomenon of white people blaming minorities for the problems occuring among white people. White folks complain, and complain alot, it's just done differently, discreetly, and amongst themselves in close-knit circles. White folks complaints manifest differently and in not-so-public formats as you've so eloquently stated in your own admission.

On any given conservative blog anywhere, one can see at least one or several posts complaining about mexicans crossing the border and taking jobs from "rightful americans", mexicans low-bidding construction & roofing jobs to their point where profit margins are non-existent, blacks taking college scholarships away from whites due to affirmative action. (You can see TONS of those) You'll find posts blaming mexicans for the influx of the spanish language that has been interjected in some way, shape or form in our daily lives now. If i got paid $1 everytime i heard, "if they can't speak English, they should go back to mexico" i'd be rich.

But of course, you nor anyone else on your blog will never admit to this in a public forum, for, as you illustrated, "fear of being called a racist".

Would you disagree with that?

Denis Navratil said...

CT, wrong! I asked you about whites and organized crime just as an example and I notice that you have no evidence to back up your claim. This should in no way be construed as agreement with the rest of your claims.

And what is this eloquent admission of mine that you mentioned?

Re policies that whites complain about, I think it is legitimate to complain about illegal immigrants taking jobs because they are committing crimes. I think it is legitimate to complain about affirmative action policies that favor one race at the expense of others because it is racist. I don't mind admitting these views though some may make various false claims about me being racist.

If I was afraid of being called a racist, I would not have initiated this thread. In fact I am urging people to fearlessly confront the PC mindset as it is harmful to all involved, IMHO.

How about providing some evidence that whites are more involved with organized crime than blacks or Mexicans?

Anonymous said...

As a black man (as 'black as a paper bag', as older black folk used to say about light skinned blacks whom could pass for white), Holder makes a good white European immigrant.

There is NO diversity in the United States - it is a white Calvinistic world...PERIOD!

All aboard!!!

Anonymous said...

Here is a nice example of what an idiot CT is.

Compare A to B. Both take up approximately 2/3 of a single post and yet completely contradict each other.

A. White folks complain, and complain alot, it's just done differently, discreetly, and amongst themselves in close-knit circles. White folks complaints manifest differently and in not-so-public formats as you've so eloquently stated in your own admission.

B. On any given conservative blog anywhere, one can see at least one or several posts complaining about mexicans crossing the border and taking jobs from "rightful americans", mexicans low-bidding construction & roofing jobs to their point where profit margins are non-existent, blacks taking college scholarships away from whites due to affirmative action. (You can see TONS of those) You'll find posts blaming mexicans for the influx of the spanish language that has been interjected in some way, shape or form in our daily lives now. If i got paid $1 everytime i heard, "if they can't speak English, they should go back to mexico" i'd be rich.

CT, are you black or white (or some other color)? Regardless of your answer, you could not possibly know what the "other" races do or say in private segregated circles.

You know what makes white people who are not racist, into racist? By treating minorities as equal human beings and with respect and then having it shoved up their ass for the effort.

I'm glad that Holder and Sharpton "instructed" me about the monkey satire, that it was about blacks, because otherwise I would never have put the two together. I was still talking about the Old Navy monkey Travis ripping that woman's eyes out.

Conscious Thought said...

"...policies that whites complain about, I think it is legitimate to complain about illegal immigrants taking jobs because they are committing crimes. I think it is legitimate to complain about affirmative action policies that favor one race at the expense of others because it is racist..."

So Denis, let me get this straight, sometimes its okay to place blame on others and other races for your own circumstances ? (i.e. illegal immigrants & affirmative action)

still would like to hear your thoughts on my 10:46 post

Anonymous said...

Hel-loooooo???? Unconscious Though-ought???? Wake the phuck uh-hup!!!

UCT: "So Denis, let me get this straight"

When will you ever get anything straight? How many times do things need to be spelled out for you? Spoon fed to you? Dumbed down for you?

So Unconcious Thought, let me get this straight. You derail a topic by laying down in front of the train?

Are you trying to be some kind of hero in your own little malfunctioning mind? It's not working. You are a bug squished on a windshield. Merely an annoyance, nothing more.

You have nothing to offer. Nothing to contribute. You bring nothing to a discussion or debate, except noise.

Conscious Thought said...

Anon, thank you for contributing your version of noise.

Anonymous said...

conscious - I disagree with almost everything you say but this blog is about discussion, and I wish that people like anon 5:09 would be a bit more respectful.